instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

Two times I've come closest to getting killed on a hang glider.

1984/07/05, Jockey's Ridge, South Bowl. Reasonable airspeed, got right wing blasted up seventy degrees, was turned around and dumped, fell a hundred feet downwind back to the steep face of the dune, pulled out and up the face, shot over the top with five feet to spare. Knowing that I could be lethally overwhelmed no matter what I did I never flew in those afternoon convection winds again.

1984/07/05, Woodstock, first flight on that ridge, old/north launch. Turned left/SW immediately after clearing the slot to work the ridge lift in close - too slow as things turned out. Severely stalled the left wing in turbulence, got spun back into the ridge, hit the trees, fell onto the rocks, left on a stretcher. Nothing broken but badly and massively bruised. Probably a real good prequel to Trey's.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33332
"Flying is an INHERENTLY DANGEROUS activity"??

Brian Scharp - 2015/09/01 20:30:06 UTC

I can't remember when exactly, but right or wrong, it was you yourself being called out for that very thing.
Found one.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22810
Weird Air @ Crestline 8-11-2011

NMERider - 2015/09/01 22:00:03 UTC

I'm re-uploading that video right now. It shows poor scratching technique in which excess pushing out is causing airflow separation that increases drag, sink rate and turning circle diameter. All of these make for slower low saves and slower climb rate. I stopped flying that way for those reasons primarily.

But if you want to use the video to illustrate flying too slow too close to terrain be my guest. Like I said, I no longer fly like that and haven't for many years. But I can't say the same for Leon Van Seeters and the mess he caused at the Villa Grove Fly-in where he tumbled while using considerably worse technique in far more severe turbulence too close to terrain after bragging about how great it was to everybody.

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=5512
Villa Grove Tuck and Tumble - Pilot Info

Fuck RMHPA.

And THAT is the conversation we should be having. How do we stop another Leon (and so forth). I'm sure there is plenty of unposted video on pilots' hard drives that shows exactly what I'm trying to illuminate and I'm confident that it's the same thing that Mitch is trying to get pilots to stop doing.

Fuck Mitch. Total u$hPa/Industry slimeball.

But this is not about technique, it's about decision-making. It requires a conscious decision to fly closer to terrain and to fly slower and to ignore the warning signs of turbulence.

In both of my incidents the warning sign was getting dumped back at the slope - first one so violently that there wasn't a goddam thing I could do about it and the second too fast for me to be able to blink. Both, however, worked real well for subsequent decision making issues in those environments.

Obviously, when flying in laminar coastal sea-breezes along sandy slopes, a skilled pilot can get so slow and so close as to drag his fingers through the grains of sand and they do this all the time.

But the same pilot on the same glider and harness who is using good decision-making may give himself twice the airspeed and several hundred meters more terrain clearance given the degree of turbulence and the make-up of the terrain. This is where good decision-making comes into play. Sadly, the fatal error that too many pilots make is reinforcing bad decision-making by virtue of repeatedly getting away with having taken bad risks.

Think stomp tests, hook-in checks, easily reachable releases, Rooney Links, stunt landings.

Rather than reflecting back on our mistake(s) either during or after the flight and saying, "Oh my gosh, did I ever get away with some bad decision(s) just now, so maybe I better change my decision-making to rise to level of prudent flying standards...?", what's killing us is when we reflect back on the same poor decision(s) and tell ourselves, "Well, I sure got away with that one okay, I guess I can just keep on doing the same thing or push it even further.."

Anyone who is unclear on the preceding paragraph would do well to get his affairs in order because he has a date with the reaper or with an orthopedic or neuro-surgeon. So rather than playing "Gotcha", how about we have a constructive conversation about not getting ourselves and our friends killed or crippled in the future? Sound good to you? It sure sounds good to me and in case you haven't noticed, the core principle of reversing this trend is right here in this very post. I learned it from Mike Meier and others who came long before him.

And ain't it great the way Mike is always taking the lead on these discussions making sure everybody gets things right! When a Rafi Lavin buys it when a wire fails at 1.1 Gs there's Mike stressing the importance of the stomp test. Zack Marzec tumbles when his Rooney Link increases the safety of the towing operation Mike emphasizes that we need to use an APPROPRIATE weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less. Kunio Yoshimura plummets from his glider in front of his screaming wife and kids, good ol' Mike is emphasizing the critical importance of the hook-in check.

Hey Jonathan...

Aren't we supposed to have a national organization with a Pilot Proficiency Program which sets standards, trains instructors, ensures competency levels, keeps tandem thrill ride operations safe places for people of varying ages to visit?

If we have all these people who don't seem to be able to comprehend that flying slowly in turbulence renders one vulnerable to stalls and that stalls close to terrain tend to be bad news then how come we're not attempting to address the issue through the national organization? How come we're limiting the discussion to the living room of some semiliterate total asshole who excludes anyone he feels like and dictates what his "guests" can and can't discuss?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33332
"Flying is an INHERENTLY DANGEROUS activity"??

Dave Pendzick - 2015/09/01 22:49:56 UTC

Got the same vibe from that email as I did from the bracelet they sent out when they increased our dues. I felt like I was being scolded.

If you'd had any fuckin' brains you'd have felt like you were being scammed with both of those efforts.

NMERider - 2015/09/01 23:18:42 UTC

Ouch! What have you seen, heard or read, etc. that has had a positive impact on your own decision making?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7916/31540774647_f71ed7cd5e_o.png
http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/FTHI.pdf

Anybody else, please chime in on this question. I'd certainly like to know.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12403
weak link table

ian9toes - 2009/06/14 15:18:37 UTC

I strongly disagree with banning the one guy who has the most knowledge about safety issues involving what I believe is the most dangerous part of our sport. I hear someone dies every year from towing. I hope SG bites his tongue in the interest of public safety.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents

Adi Branch - 2009/11/10 20:50:50 UTC

For what it's worth, I think Tad spoke a lot of sense.

Brian Scharp - 2015/09/01 23:59:06 UTC

Part of having a conversation is answering the questions posed.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC

God I love the ignore list

Tad loves to have things both ways.
First weaklinks are too weak, so we MUST use stronger ones. Not doing so is reckless and dangerous.
Then they're too strong.

I have no time for such circular logic.
I had it with that crap years ago.

This one's plain and simple.... with a protow setup the tow force on either side of the bridal is halved. If that bridal wraps when you release the barrel, ALL of the tow force is now on the weaklink.

Please do not think for an instant that that thing isn't going to let go. It's going to snap so fast that you won't realize what happened till after it's happened.

As for being in a situation where you can't or don't want to let go, Ryan's got the right idea. They're called "weak" links for a reason. Overload that puppy and you bet your ass it's going to break.

You can tell me till you're blue in the face about situations where it theoretically won't let go or you can drone on and on about how "weaklinks only protect the glider" (which is BS btw)... and I can tell ya... I could give a crap, cuz just pitch out abruptly and that little piece of string doesn't have a chance in hell. Take your theory and shove it... I'm saving my a$$.

I can't help that the answers are sometimes full of irony. I will admit amusement from it though.

NMERider - 2015/09/01 20:07:19 UTC

It is my understanding that the vast majority of serious and fatal hang glider accidents are caused by flying too close to terrain at too slow airspeed while in the presence of turbulence. This can be while launching, lauding and especially while scratching.

The best way I can think of to convey the seriousness of stalling near terrain is to be careful not to belittle it...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12682
Landing on your feet (for AEROTOW)- So Dangerous

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/06/29 14:26:26 UTC

OMG!!! You dont even have wheels!!?!?!?!?
YOURE GONNA DIE FOR SUUUUREE!!!!

I have a brilliant idea. People who cant land for sh*t.... LEARN TO LAND That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh???

...or make statements about it that might easily be confused. I'm not sure how to get to someone who's pushing their safety margins ever narrower.

Gravity often does a pretty good job of making the point after a few repetitions.

I'll guess that the lack of incident coverage and going on about how safe hang gliding is does little to help.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/12 14:49:58 UTC

gasdive,

One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG. MOST views on this site are NOT from members but from visitors, they have no ignore button.

Having Tad run around every day giving the impression that there is a massive weekly slaughter of pilots at tow parks due to their horribly dangerous devices surely doesnt promote HG. Especially when the safety records are quite excellent.

Like Jim said, theyve gone a decade with no fatalities at their tow park. Pretty damn good I say.

Yet listening to Tad, you would think guys were dying all over the place
He's been nothing but misleading and negative and ignored multiple warnings from me. So He's GONE

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33332
"Flying is an INHERENTLY DANGEROUS activity"??

NMERider - 2015/09/02 00:59:23 UTC
The sport's own culture is its worst enemy. That culture includes bragging and belittling others among other things.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840
[TIL] About Tad Eareckson

Orion Price - 2013/03/11 15:12:28 UTC

Final bit of troll food, I read about Tad's reputation this morning.

Tad Eareckson is a generally discounted crackpot and internet troll. He doesn't fly and has been perma-banned from most everywhere: .org, oz report and all the local club websites with discussion forums like ours.

He has two main speaking points. 1. All HG landings should be done prone as belly landings using wheels. All other foot landings are suicidal, he will say. He schadenfreudes hard at our accidents and especially fatalities 2. He is a self proclaimed "engineer" and inventor of Rube Goldberg tow bridles. As you can see his elegant designs are a huge commercial success sweeping the industry. His explanation of how his bridles work indicated he doesn't have any education on the subject.

His situation reminds me of a tragedy of a family friend. As began to loose his edge, he proportionality wanted to write people weirder and weirder letters. Newspaper editors, distant relatives, and especially the government would receive long rants pointing out his intelligence and schadenfreuding over their failures. Eventually his internet usage had to be monitored, and his snail-mail letters "mailed" by someone else. The failure mode exhibited here is nearly identical.

He may not fly, but I do. And it's all about the flying.

[/feeding weird internet troll]

Unfortunately, many of those who brag and belittle happen to be excellent and knowledgeable pilots too.

Who the fuck gives a rat's ass? The stupidest Turkey Vulture at the roost can kick all of our collective asses on the crappiest day of its flying career. There just ain't all that much to being in excellent and knowledgeable hang glider pilot.

And so their message of safe practices comes dipped in vinegar and jalapeno rather than honey.

Cite some examples. The single most important message of safe practices is to not be a testosterone poisoned asshole. I'm not seeing people who are genuinely concerned about safe/competent airmanship in general and this sport in particular being braggarts and belittling non deserving individuals.

The result is that pilot mishaps are driven underground or swept under the rug.

As per u$hPa's openly declared mission statement.

And there is also the sales and marketing thrust of not scaring potential customers away.

That's why we have Kite Strings.

But what I have learned from many of my X/C calamities is that the people who are likely to take lessons are not put off by the known risks.

The known risks are totally trivial in comparison to the efforts of u$hPa and The Industry to prevent the easy fixes from ever seeing the light of day.

May people who have helped me get rescued or break-down my glider after I pounded-in somewhere, went on to take lessons.

From whom? Were any of them ever taught what a hook-in check was?

These folks have enjoyed many other actions sports and have broken bones or had friends get injured in those sports and they fully understand the risks involved. In fact it is those very risks that attract people to hang gliding.

- So go back and light up the thread:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents

and tell Jack he's totally full o' shit.

- We don't want assholes coming into this sport 'cause they're attracted to the risks. We want people coming into this sport who want to understand the risks and learn how to neutralize them.

So why put our heads in the sand or deny what is real?

'Cause we've been doing it for so many decades that we're really good at it?

I applauded Mitch for sending out that letter.

Fuck that son of a bitch and the horse he rode in on. Sleazy goddam u$hPa/Industry tool.

I'm glad he got board approval...

Board APPROVAL? Tim Herr wrote it and the Board proofread it and gave it to Mitch to broadcast in his capacity of Accident Reporting Committee Chair.

But sad that it had to happen.

Has something happened? When will we start feeling the effects?

But it had to happen. But we as a group need to change our sport's culture in order to make prudent decision-making as desirable a pilot trait as setting records or winning comps.

We who? What group? What does one need to be privileged to participate in it? What are the rules governing expulsion?

And I am not talking about pilots who get gold stars on their heads for not having accidents.

Damn. And here I was with my career record unblemished by a single accident. Just lotsa stupid pooch screws.

I am talking about pilots exposing themselves to real personal accomplishment and managing their risk every step of the way so that can expand their personal envelope of flying to what suits each individual.

Guess that puts Kelly Harrison out of the running. Bummer. Really great guy and outstanding pilot from everything I've heard.

This means mutual respect for each others' choices as to where he or she draws the line and that is just not happening to the degree that it could be.

Oops. There goes the last vestige of any hope I'd had.

Several weeks before Mitch got his letter distributed I had written to him and Nick Greece proposing that we start a monthly magazine column called, "Why I Didn't Get Killed - A Celebration of Good Decision-Making".

Or dumb luck.

I see too much emphasis on what went wrong and too little emphasis on what went right but without all the bragging and elitism that often accompanies self-reporting type articles.

Too bad. I was really looking forward to hearing Mike Bomstad...

11-A12819
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8339/28924980016_2ba1d20ef7_o.png


http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8253/28924975726_0d24a615c2_o.png
13-A14319

...bragging about how he thought he'd strain over to his left to see if his tip was OK. Or maybe something from Davis...


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


...bragging about how the weak link he used to be happy with prevented him from being dragged after he slammed in and tore up his face on his demo wing.

That's just plain offensive.

Can't I brag a little bit about the way I survived some aerotows with a Tad-O-Link years before Tad-O-Links become cool?

I never heard back from either one but then the letter appeared in my inbox and I felt a sense that things might be moving in a better direction.

Yeah Jonathan. That letter circulated because Mitch considered your position and decided to stop being a lying scumbag and do something positive for the sport for something new and different.

But until we start reading columns written by everyday pilots who really and truly managed their own risk while expanding their horizons or simply reigning in their horizons (I don't care which) then nobody is going to drink the Kool-Aid.

Isn't not drinking the Kool-Aid generally considered to be a GOOD thing?

u$hPa has been running a Ponzi scheme for decades. It has ZERO credibility and ZERO possibility of ever achieving anything resembling integrity and respectability. We've entered an era of factionalization and that's about the best we can hope for - some degree of deterioration of monopoly control. Fuck anything that impedes that process.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33332
"Flying is an INHERENTLY DANGEROUS activity"??

Brian Scharp - 2015/09/02 02:16:56 UTC

Apparently to do otherwise jeopardizes our ability to get and keep insurance. Articles titled "Why I Didn't Get Killed - A Celebration of Good Decision-Making" while being good at exposing risks involved and ways to manage them, may be viewed the same. What a pickle.

NMERider - 2015/09/02 03:16:06 UTC

I don't think it has any effect on liability insurance or keeping flying sites open whatsoever. I believe this is a self-perpetuating myth.

I believe it's an Industry-perpetrated myth. Commercial hang gliding doesn't want any vestiges of reality tainting the way it wants pictures painted.

The reality is that we are in fact free to kill and cripple ourselves just as long as it in no way imperils anybody else's safety or private property.

Did you know that the worst lawsuit against USHPA that I'm aware of resulted from members of a certain club failing to advise a visiting pilot to tie down his Wills Wing U2 in the setup area, which he then failed to do?

Wrong...

http://www.westcoastsoaringclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5959
Chelan Butte Dust Devil Blender....

Holger Selover-Stephan - 2010/07/08 16:35
Portland, Oregon

From what I heard, a 58-yo bystander came to help holding down this glider and suffered seven broken ribs and a punctured lung. He was airlifted out and moved to ICU. A pilot received wire burns to his hand, needing stitches. Two others were knocked around, too.

There are tie-downs at Chelan Butte and this glider was tied down until the pilot removed them to move his glider to the launch.

What followed was a typical dust devil came through and turned the unsecured glider...

Unsecured? Inadequately secured as things turned out but not because people weren't making their best efforts.

...into a whirling kinetic sculpture twirling about on its nose. A helpful spectator tried to stop the glider by grabbing the naked flying wires...

That's most assuredly NOT what happened. The guy was volunteer crew at that point and everybody was braced for action awaiting its arrival.

...and for his trouble sustained severe injuries including a lasting TBI. This is in fact what raises our insurance rates and gets sites closed.

So then let's mandate dust devil proof tie-downs at all launches, LZs, likely XC bailouts at which there are possibilities of powerful dust devils and wire assistance from Joe Public guys and suspend ratings of pilots who fail to minimize untied time in thermal conditions?

We already have a prohibition against using non u$hPa waivered crew on launches at insured sites that seems to have done u$hPa no good whatsoever. Extend it to cover Chelan Butte situations? Here comes the dust devil as the glider's moving to launch, Joe Public guy is waved off because of the SOP, consequently the dust devil wins the tug of war and uses the glider to bash Person of Varying Age Tony in the back of the head and turn him into a vegatable.

Likewise the wuffo who wasn't allowed to crew as a consequence of the existing reg could get vegged by the ground looping glider that got out of control as a consequence of insufficient crew.

I have both videos...

Me too. The other one, GEDC0616.MOV, ain't that great. Stills from the gem, Hang Gliding on Chelan Butte, are up at:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post5929.html#p5929

...in case you'd like to see the helpful spectator...

Stop calling him a spectator. He was CREW.

...nearly get killed then lay there unconscious. The glider and pilot were unharmed thank goodness.

So tell me how without the benefit of a crystal ball those involved SHOULD've tried to handle the situation. If anyone did anything inappropriate and/or obviously incompetent I haven't been able to spot it and haven't heard anyone describe how he'd done better. They got hit by a mini tornado and sometimes when that sorta thing happens so does the proverbial shit.

We are in fact free to kill or cripple ourselves as we see fit as long as it does not threaten anyone else's health or well-being or threaten personal property. Personal risk-taking flying behavior can destroy a pilot financially and not for the reasons most of us may think. But that is something that can be used for positive motivation.

Any ideas on how to motivate people to understand that there's no such thing as an easy reach during a low level lockout?

There are a multitude of positive motivating factors that can help a pilot with poor decision-making become a pilot with good decision-making but we are not exploiting these.

Like for example the u$hPa Pilot Proficiency Program which is supposed to ensure that people are qualified in terms of skill, experience, judgment to move up into environments with elevating risk potentials.

There is no open, honest and factual dialogue going on anywhere to the best of my knowledge and belief in which pilots may freely discuss their decision-making without fear of being ridiculed, insulted, bullied, back-stabbed, lied-to, slandered, or otherwise exposed to the dread boorishness of all the braggarts.

Have you checked out Kite Strings? That was a core intent at its founding but the individuals most in need of such, along with just about everyone else, treated it like plutonium and happily went on discussing their opinions along with their moronic peers so we just hang out for a while until the inevitable result of assholes doing the same thing over and over hoping for better results cycles in, and...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=992
Continuing Saga of Weak Link and Release Mechanism Failures

Warren Narron - 2012/03/06 02:26:04 UTC

Tad, used to post about as nice as anyone, and nicer than some. Remember?

Blowback... You put in a thousand plus hour$, tooling, te$ting and documenting safety issues for the masses and have it ignored and suppressed by people, for whatever reason, and you would get testy too.
You're fairly snarky as it is, and you haven't done the work...

And you may be correct about the footnote... but today's footnotes are now hyperlinks...

There is a good chance that from now on, for every incident and fatality caused by insufficient weaklinks or sub-standard release mechanisms, a hyperlink trail will lead back to Tadtriedtowarnyou.com ... where all the evidence can be found.

A further link could then go to a list of all the people and the role they played in the suppression of those safety issues...
Who would like to be on that list?
How many are already on it?

...do the postmortem.

Until pilots are able to at least freely engage is this conversation among their peers and peers are able to freely approach suspect pilots without fear of having to weather a maelstrom of epithets from some defensive and self-righteous pilot then little will ever change. IMHO.

Nobody seemed too concerned about the maelstrom of epithets T** at K*** S****** was weathering as he was taking a stand against the Davis Link, the havoc it was wreaking, and the total fucking assholes perpetrating and defending it. And there weren't any real long lines of mainstream forum assholes forming to apologize after the Ponzi scheme finally collapsed bigtime on 2013/02/02.

Also... Why the fuck does positive change need to come only from open public discussion between "peers" on mainstream glider forums?

As far as I'm concerned a serious crash is ALWAYS the fault of the rating official to some degree so we' already have a serious fundamental system failure at the start. And how come this rating official doesn't get held responsible for helping clean up the mess he helped create? It's a no brainer that u$hPa's on the same page with me regarding this assignment of responsibility 'cause they keep somebody on the computer 24/7 poised to shred the rating information of the current victim the moment his identity is confirmed.

What I hear the most vulnerable individuals, the Twoish types who've just graduated from some abomination of a commercial operation, desiring and seeking most are highly qualified, experienced, respected individuals who know what the fuck they're talking about - the kind they ASSUMED they'd be getting when the forked out for the certified instruction in the first place. But the problem is that those individuals don't exist at detectable levels 'cause they're major threats to u$hPa / commercial hang gliding and thus get ostracized and silenced.

So we get left with scores of equally valid and totally contradictory opinions and endorsements of the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden, which is a total load a crap, and the excellent article by Mike Meier, "Why Can't We Get a Handle On This Safety Thing?", which is of zero practical value and has never prevented anyone from scraping a knee or slightly bowing a downtube.

NOTHING is gonna put this sport on a track worth staying on until/unless we can get it in sync with solid aeronautical theory and that ain't never gonna happen while we're having Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineer Bob declaring stalls to be totally benign and people tolerating crap like that.

Point to something other than Kite Strings moving hang gliding in the right direction at a measurable pace.
- We've done theory, procedure, equipment, risk management, threat assessment, crash investigation, history, whistle blowing.
- All the:
-- solid innovations plugging the big holes in the sport are either coming from or clearly identified and unreservedly endorsed here.
-- reputations most in need of destruction have been destroyed here.

If someone wants to know how to do this sport right this is the only game in town. The reason active participation in Kite Strings is, always has been, always will be fuckin' pathetic is because the powers controlling the sport won't tolerate people who want to do this sport right.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33332
"Flying is an INHERENTLY DANGEROUS activity"??

Brian Scharp - 2015/09/02 04:08:04 UTC

If not the fear of liability, what motivates the suppression of accident reports

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues

Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

We're re-working the accident reporting system, but again it's a matter of getting the reports submitted and having a volunteer willing to do the detail work necessary to get them posted. There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.

Fear of liability - and a fierce dedication to protect the guilty from any shadows of accountability and justice.

NMERider - 2015/09/02 04:36:07 UTC

Ignorance, if you ask me.

Cowardice and sleaziness, if you ask me.

Have you seen the BHPA accident database? It's wide open:
http://www.bhpa.co.uk/documents/safety/

Fuck those assholes.

But I'm less concerned about reading about why accidents did happen than why accidents didn't happen.

- "Accidents" are pretty much non existent in hang gliding.

- Going up with a release within easy reach is already an accident. The reason it rarely results in a serious crash is because there's seldom sufficient shit happening low enough to create an issue.

As interested as I may be in why things wrong, I am far more interested in why things went right.

The assumption that the pilot was hooked in was correct.
The sidewire was still good for two Gs.
No thermal blasted through at the right moment.
The glider didn't lock out below 250 feet.
There was sufficient altitude to recover from the increase in the safety of the towing operation.
With his hands on the downtubes at shoulder or ear height the pilot didn't NEED to control the glider.
The flare timing was perfect when it needed to be.

But it seems that too few pilots are talking and far too often when they do it either comes across as offensive even if it wasn't intended to offend or it fosters antagonism or defensiveness.

It seems to me that too few pilots who are talking are actual pilots - or will ever have snowballs' chances in hell of ever becoming pilots.

In any event it just ain't happening as it should and pilots will continue to crash and get injured or killed needlessly and avoidably.

Darwin doing what he does best. Gotta prioritize concern for the gene pool.

Steve Forslund - 2015/09/02 05:21:10 UTC

Only if they launch.

NMERider - 2015/09/02 06:46:27 UTC

Some don't even get that far before it's too late.

Craig Pirazzi sure didn't. But great to see that he died legally and nobly by not using any unwaivered film crewman for wire assistance.

Bill Jennings - 2015/09/02 12:06:38 UTC

AOPA has had an article series "Never Again" for about as long as I can remember. Written by pilots who have gotten into some kind of trouble, lived to tell the tale, and then share their experience with the readership.
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/Pilot-Magazine-Columns/Never-Again
Also, the NTSB accident database is an open book for all to see.
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/index.aspx

Ask the motherfuckers when they're gonna conclude their investigation of the Keavy Nenninger crash and put it in their open book for all to see.

I'd love to see similar for HG/PG incidents...

Have you checked out the magazine archives from the Doug Hildreth era? Are we finding new ways to crash that hadn't been documented and fully addressed scores of times over in those columns?

...but investigations cost money...

Well yeah - if you wanna get the kind of real quality documentation and analysis that we did from the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and Mitch Shipley on the Jean Lake crash.

...and the government doesn't investigate our mishaps.

- Or any of our serial killing sprees.

- Sure it does. The FAA comes out and finds that the hang glider doesn't have a tail number and the Maryland State Police determines that the aircraft appeared to be for recreational purposes. What more do we and the general public really need to know?

You can see that the situation in hang gliding totally sucks and has been going south for decades. Now you need to figure out WHY.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33362
A good read on safety

Skeeter - 2015/09/03 13:21:58 UTC
Southern Alberta

http://ushpa.aero/safety/safetynotice_20150828.pdf

Great read. From a motherfucker who permanently rearranges the face of one of you Jack Show assholes then tells everybody:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27396
Scooter tow faillure... or Never Land On Your Face

Mitch Shipley - 2012/10/22 19:04:16 UTC

We engage in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction.

I wonder if he tacked another fifteen bucks to the tow charge for the extra enjoyment Paul got outta that one.

Erik Boehm - 2015/09/03 14:44:42 UTC

I'd be interested in seeing the worldwide numbers (preferably by region/country as well).

Then read Robert V. Wills' reports in the archives up to 1981 when USHGA outlawed reporting of crashes from outside the US.

However, in that .pdf, there is a discrepency in the graphs.

Who the fuck cares? If it's from Mitch and/or u$hPa we already know that it's useless crap.

According to the first graph (which shows HG, PG, and combined fatalities), there were 2 fatalities in 2008 for PGs); however the third graph (which shows PG fatalities by rating for each year) shows zero fatalities for 2008.

Which is it?

Thanks for catching those discrepancies. We should all be much safer now for your efforts.

Fred Wilson - 2015/09/03 15:17:33 UTC

Page 16 of the newest edition of the HGFA Skysailor Magazine (Sept - Oct 2015)
http://www.hgfa.asn.au/skysailor/skysailor.htm

HPAC Safety Articles:
http://www.hpac.ca/pub/?pid=48

More:
http://www.hpac.ca/forum/viewforum.php?f=18

Fuck HGFA. Ask them what happened with Steven Tinoson, 2014/09/23, and Trevor Scott, 2015/01/24. Ask them what they're specifying for aerotow weak links and why.

Mike Badley - 2015/09/03 19:12:10 UTC

Is there a good source to read up on the fatalities so far this year?

Tried Kite Strings? Just kidding.

Seems like we would get that in the magazine in the past, but now they never post that stuff.

Duh.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33362
A good read on safety

Hoosier_Eagle - 2015/09/03 19:40:53 UTC
Indiana

the buzz

Same magazine, same edition, pages 38-41 is quite interesting.

Great. Tell us some of the things you'll be doing better as a consequence of reading it.

It shows exactly what I once looked for from our own national organization here in the States, when I first started flying.

It almost certainly does - seeing as how we're not inventing new ways to crash gliders and kill ourselves. So tell me why it's interesting or useful?

Just speaking for myself personally...

Nah, you're also speaking for those of us who've been banned from The Jack Show and can't speak for ourselves personally. So make sure to do a really good job.

...I have found it very helpful to avail myself of incident reports, from the British Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association (BHPA).

Fuck BHPA.

Regularly reading those incident reports (the links are given below) has been refreshing.

I always got a little charge out of seeing assholes fuck themselves up too.

It feels like a different culture, with regard to incident reporting. I feel true gratitude towards each person in the BHPA, who willingly reports an incident, no matter how minor or embarrassing...

...no matter that absolutely nothing is ever done at the national level to implement policy to address the issues resulting in the incidents...

...and in doing so, educates me. The reports remind me to stay vigilant, keep my pride in check, keep my eyes and ears open.

I do something similar by looking and thinking about my sidewires, the cliff or asshole in the Dragonfly in front of me, trees, rocks, crops, powerlines...

They have truly helped me to manage risk better by highlighting hazards that I (honestly) may not have taken to heart, or even some that I may not have fully realized were there.

Name some of those so's we can find out why not.

I think it is wonderful (a true public service) that I do not have to be a member, or jump through some log-in hoop...

...or have privileged information decimated through privileged information decimators...

...just to be allowed to freely read, learn...

It's free FLIGHT, not free READING and LEARNING - asshole.

...and attempt to become a more knowledgeable and hopefully, safer pilot. Kudos to BHPA for keeping these databases and reports open.

How 'bout...

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

...The Jack Show?

http://www.bhpa.co.uk/documents/safety/informal_investigations/
and
http://www.bhpa.co.uk/documents/safety/formal_investigations/

Now, in my heart of hearts, I just wish there was a true source on US free flying that was as equally informative and accessible.

Wishing won't accomplish anything.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears to me, on the USHPA website, that there has not been an incident report generated for HG since 2007, nor one for PG since 2010.

That's OK, those were all useless crap anyway.

And with regard to serious or fatal incidents (the equivalent of a "formal investigation" by BHPA) I see nothing besides a summary list of the fatal incidents.

But we've got a pretty good handle on the causes of the fatalities. Damn near always it's the suffering of fatal injuries. I think we need more padding when we go flying.

No where can I seem to find accessible links to the incident summaries, investigative findings, or resulting safety suggestions for any of the serious or fatal incidents.

Here:
http://www.kitestrings.org/
- Broken arm Saturday for discussion
- LMFP Release Dysfunction
- How to crash a Hang Glider
- 2005/09/03 AT crash
- 2013/06/15 - Tres Pinos - jammed release
- 2015/03/27 Jean Lake crash
- Focused Pilot
- Weak links
- Releases
- You are NEVER hooked in.
- bridles
- wires
- landing
- launching
- instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

That should cover pretty much everything possible to fuck up hang gliding, identify causes and solutions, and keep you busy for a while.

Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate USHPA sending safety reminders and such, but just speaking for myself, I yearn for full facts.

Bummer. u$hPa's safety reminders and such have virtually nothing to do with facts of any degree or kind.

My goodness, there must be something we can learn...

If there were you'd have learned it already.

...in some of these cases, these were H5 and H4 pilots with decades of experience.

And minutes or seconds in the way of competence, common sense, ability to think.

And I do mean posted, openly, on the national organization website, not just in this blog (as informative and helpful as it may be)...

(Or the precise opposite.)

...or in another blog, or on a Facebook page, or buried in a local flying site's Google+ or Yahoo group.

Is anything stopping you from compiling and analyzing that kind of data - the way I do with a little help from my friends?

Don't we owe it to ourselves and to those we have lost, to have openly accessible incident and safety information for all?

Fuck no. Just pray for their friends and families and take flights in their honor on the next good weekend.

As a pee-on, only occasional, recreational pilot, but true free flight lover, I am stunned at how hard it is to garner information on accidents in this sport.

Oh, you want information on ACCIDENTS in this sport. Sorry, can't help you much.

I want to fly safely for many years to come.

No you don't. You want to spend your weekends at training hills perfecting your spot no steppers.

But, I find it easier to learn about incidents involving Cessna's or DC-10's than hang gliders.

You'll also find it a lot easier to learn about the surface and atmosphere of Pluto than you will any of the relevant issues in the 2015/03/27 Jean Lake crash after the u$hPa, FAA, Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, and mainstream media have been in and come up with a story they can all stick to.

http://titan-server.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSPublicQueryWizard/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx

That just don't seem right.

Good. Stay with that. When you KNOW it's not right and WHY lotsa stuff will start falling in place for you.

So, with that said, I ask, is anything currently going on in USHPA that is working on changing this, behind the scenes, and maybe, just yet to be revealed?

Not really. When u$hPa banned Bob for acting in a manner inconsistent with the best interests of The Corporation it sent a message that it could use its monopoly power to destroy the hang and/or paragliding careers of anyone it wanted to on any whim or pretense at any time it chose. So love it or go to the flight park Tad runs.

Will the new server, and web pages offer updated flying site information, and incident reports?

I don't know, I just ask out loud. Do any one of you guys feel this way?

Fuck any of those guys.

Okay, stepping down off my soap box (for now)...
I would imagine that I have shaken the bee hive enough for one day.
Thanks for reading.

And be sure and thank all the people who share your opinion, feelings, perceptions who respond to your post.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33362
A good read on safety

Brian Scharp - 2015/09/04 16:40:47 UTC

Hoosier_Eagle - 2015/09/03 19:40:53 UTC

So, with that said, I ask, is anything currently going on in USHPA that is working on changing this, behind the scenes, and maybe, just yet to be revealed? Will the new server, and web pages offer updated flying site information, and incident reports? I don't know, I just ask out loud. Do any one of you guys feel this way?

Have you asked USHPA? This is from an older post, but to my knowledge it's still representative.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues

Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

We're re-working the accident reporting system, but again it's a matter of getting the reports submitted and having a volunteer willing to do the detail work necessary to get them posted. There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.

And consider this, Hoosier...

Mark says:

- It's a trade-off between informing u$hPa members so they can avoid particular kinds of accidents in the future and exposing themselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiffs' attorneys more ammunition to shoot at them.

and

- They're constantly walking a line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.

Name ONE SOP from the past three decades that u$hPa's implemented to successfully address a particular kind of accident, ONE noose it's handed out at the hangmen's convention.

ZERO, right?

So what Mark's saying is that they indeed are quite aware of information, procedures, standards that WOULD allow members, nonmembers, flyers the world over to prevent crashes and fatalities but are sitting on ALL of it in an effort to maximize coverage of their corporate asses.

So when he talks about wrestling with legal issues, trade-offs, wanting to convey good info, constantly walking a line he's totally full o' shit - lying like a goddam rug. They know EXACTLY what measures to take to stem or eliminate the carnage and they WILL kill every single one that comes to their attention and work overtime to demolish every would-be reformer they can get their shitty hands on.

Then they mail out FOCUSED PILOT wristbands and reprint useless bullshit articles on risk awareness and management to give the appearance that they give flying fucks and are doing something useful.

Make a case to the contrary. Present some other explanation for our current and rapidly degrading state of affairs.

Look at the current version of their bullshit mission statement:

E. Learning. USHPA will support learning, in part by providing an organizational framework for instructor and pilot training and certification.
F. Safety. USHPA will steadily foster a culture of safety.

Can anybody detect any fragments of ACTUAL MEANING in that crap? What kind of reality does that translate to? Does anyone get through the resources knowing the difference between tension and pressure?

Close to 28 hours now since your Jack Show post, Hoosier, and only one response which is basically the quote of that 2012/12/20 obscenity from Mark G. Forbes. And nobody's whispered a word about that 2012/12/20 obscenity from Mark G. Forbes either. Still having a hard time understanding the big picture?

[Tad Eareckson]

And, Hoosier, it's been over seven and a half hours since Brian's response to your post and all we're hearing is crickets. So it doesn't look like ANYONE - including you - is really all that interested in doing anything about anything.