So let's start with the lay of the land...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting
Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC
We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe. Even so, we get sued periodically by people who say we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done something that would have averted their accident.
It's not just concern for meet directors and policy makers...it's about our continued existence as an association. It's about minimizing the chance of our getting sued out of existence. We're one lawsuit away from that, all the time, and we think hard about it. I would LOVE to not have to think that way, but every time a legal threat arises, it reminds me that we have a very dysfunctional legal system in this country (note: not a "justice" system...there's little justice involved) and we have to recognize that reality and deal with it.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/30 23:21:56 UTC
Here's how it really works:
- Member submits an accident report. Could be the pilot who had the accident, or some other witness.
- Accident report is sent to Tim to maintain legal privilege. Tim reviews the report and determines whether there's significant legal risk associated with it. He may redact certain parts (personally identifiable information, etc.) if in his opinion exposure of that information poses a risk to us. If the report is very risky, he may decide that it can't be shared further, and will notify the ED about it. He may also notify our insurers if he sees a potential for a claim, as is normal practice for any incident where we are aware of such a potential.
- Redacted report goes to the accident review chairs, for incorporation into periodic articles in the magazine. Articles focus on root causes of accidents, not on personal narratives or details.
The whole procedure is outlined in SOP 03-16, which you can read by logging into the USHPA website and clicking on "Policy Manual".
Increase in our USHpA dues
I think every single individual with more than an ounce or two of sanity, decency, integrity who read these naked, open, unabashed, incredible statements was stunned, shocked, horrified, aghast to the point of speechlessness - 'cept, of course, for the few of us who'd been watching these motherfuckers for the last couple decades and had figured out that that was exactly what was going on.Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC
We're re-working the accident reporting system, but again it's a matter of getting the reports submitted and having a volunteer willing to do the detail work necessary to get them posted. There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.
Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.
Aviation is just a flavor of safety. That's ALL Wilbur and Orville were concerned with - putting people up on a wing that they could reliably make do what they wanted it to and put it back down in one piece. And WHATEVER the flavor of aviation is - hang gliding, paragliding, Cessna hops, airline, aerobatics, carrier landings, bombing missions, dogfights, kamikaze runs (to the point of impact anyway) - it's still ALL about safety.
So you've got a national aviation organization - which is used as a model by national aviation organizations the world over - which refuses to have any real involvement in aviation. Sets pilot proficiency and experience standards, certifies instructors, issues and revokes ratings, interfaces with the FAA as a monopoly power but, "Hey, we really don't know which way is up and we're not gonna take a stand on any of the controversies on that particular issue. Every man for himself."
And this is just the barest tip of the iceberg and there are inescapable conclusions one MUST reach from these statements.
- In the eras of Robert V. Wills and Doug Hildreth, ending in 1994, we had really excellent "accident" reporting and analysis and - even though they were pretty much totally ignored by the schools and instructors - recommendations. Started going downhill after that and...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16439
Some day we will learn
...reached the point of total extinction years ago. Conclusion... Tim Herr correctly concluded that ALL crashes are the consequences of USHGA negligence and incompetence. And if you don't report them...Steve Morris - 2010/03/31 23:58:54 UTC
Sunnyvale, California
In 2009 there were several serious hang gliding accidents involving pilots on the HG forum (or who had close friends on the forum that reported that these accidents had occurred). In each case there was an immediate outcry from forum members not to discuss these accidents, usually referring to the feelings of the pilots' families as a reason to not do so. In each case it was claimed that the facts would eventually come out and a detailed report would be presented and waiting for this to happen would result in a better informed pilot population and reduce the amount of possibly harmful speculation.
In each of these cases I have never seen a final detailed accident report presented in this forum. So far as I can tell, the accident reporting system that has been assumed to exist here doesn't exist at all, the only reports I've seen are those published in the USHPA magazine. They are so stripped down, devoid of contextual information and important facts that in many cases I have not been able to match the magazine accident report with those mentioned in this forum.
The end result has been that effective accident reporting is no longer taking place in the USHPA magazine or in this forum. Am I the only one who feels this way?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg
... they never happened. End of problem.
If someone drinks himself stupid and flies into the powerlines USHGA will probably publish the accident report and, after proper consultation with its attorney, issue an advisory against drinking oneself stupid and flying into powerlines. Beyond that... You're on your own.
- No person with the slightest vestige of conscience or decency could work within a system like that and be able to look at himself in a mirror or sleep at night. Thus one can very safely conclude that:
-- one hundred percent of the people who DO work within that system are total pieces of shit
-- anybody who wasn't a total piece of shit who entered that system with the intent of reforming it would become a shit slathered scorched slice of toast within five seconds tops
-- the farther up the hierarchy you go the sleazier the scum you're gonna be dealing with - and that totally and extremely includes all glider manufacturers, flight parks, major discussion groups
-- chapters and the discussion groups they control all totally suck - if they didn't they wouldn't be chapters of a sewer such as that
-- competence and integrity are feared, hated, ridiculed, punished - the lower you go down the hierarchy you go the better off you'll be (welcome to Kite Strings)
- USHGA's scared just as shitless of the justice system as any other sleazy Ponzi schemer.
- The last time USHGA put a fix to a problem on the books was 1981/05 with:
and in the 33 plus years since that has NEVER ONCE been implemented by A SINGLE USHGA instructor with A SINGLE USHGA student. And I mean that totally literally. Try to find a shred of evidence to the contrary. And ever since right after the 2005/10/01 Bill Priday fatality USHGA has been at war insisting that "a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in" means only a hang check in the setup area "just prior to launch" means a fifteen minutes or more as anything under that only serves to give the pilot a dangerous false sense of security.With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
So obviously - and, again, I mean this totally literally - EVERY SINGLE FIX to every single lethal problem in hang gliding, including but not limited to basic, common sense, up down stuff:
- from conventional aviation that Wilbur and Orville we're doing before they figured out they needed to put a rudder on their plane
- that was universal in hang gliding in the Seventies before it was determined that basic, common sense, up down stuff presented a major threat to USHGA from a liability standpoint
has been shredded and buried along with its advocate.
- Related to this it's obvious that the more total moronic lunatic crap USHGA is able to get promoted through its instructional programs and magazine the more secure it will be. "There are many different approaches to and opinions regarding this issue. We have no solid consensus. This is an inherently dangerous sport and sometimes shit just happens. Rest assured, though, this issue will remain high on our list of priorities until it's thoroughly understood, a consensus is reached, and the remedial procedure is implemented."
Never stop checking your six.Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC
I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself.
They're STILL gonna be getting worse for a good bit - contrary to the reassuring bullshit...
I would love to be in the air racing, but I do not have a parachute or a harness. My parachute was blown into the barbed wire fence minutes after I landed, and my Tenax harness has bad juju all over it. It never fit quite right anyway. Good thing Gecko Girl won a new Moyes harness 
